Sinteza proteinelor vine din alimentatie?

Studiile au aratat ca atunci cand sunt urmate diete bogate in calorii, majoritatea greutatii acumulate (65%) este grasime, 15% este lichid intracelular, ...? (mai mult)

Question

Sinteza proteinelor vine din alimentatie?

Studiile au aratat ca atunci cand sunt urmate diete bogate in calorii, majoritatea greutatii acumulate (65%) este grasime, 15% este lichid intracelular, si ce ramane sunt muschi. Se pare ca 25% din cresterea musculara vine din sinteza proteinelor, restul vine din proliferarea celulelor satelit aflate pe tesutul muscular.

MedionTcO · Answer

Si crezi ca proliferarea celulelor satelit, nu s-a format tot cu ajutorul alimentelor? Logic ca sinteza proteinelor vine din alimentatie.

RAY · Answer

Nu am inteles eu prea bine asa e, Adaugarea de tesut adipos datorita cantitatilor mari de mancare ingerate, duce la catabolism, si la unele dereglari hormonale care promoveaza catabolismul de ce?

RAY · Answer

Atunci a consuma mai multe proteine este o solutie sau indiferent de cate proteine bagi in tine tot 25% va fi?

MedionTcO · Answer

Raspund prima data la prima intrebare:De ce? Suprasoliciti corpul.
Daca consumi proteine in cantitati mari, excesive chiar, iti afectezi corpul, organele lui mai exact, precum rinichiul. Un consum excesiv de protein forţează eliberarea calciului din oase, pentru că aciditatea crescută, provocată de digestia şi absorbţia proteinelor.

RAY · Answer

Pe rand e tot timp, eu credeam ca daca manci mult nu se va arde masa musculara decat daca manci putin

MedionTcO · Answer

Nu neaparat, tu crezi ca sportivii mananca putin? Trebuie sa stii ce sa mananci, nu sa flamanzesti.

RAY · Answer

Categoric manca mult, dar si ard, gandeste-te la simona halep cate calorii arde ea pe meci

MedionTcO · Answer

Pai tocmai de asta mananca mult. Isi permit sa manance deoarece ard apoi calorii in cantitati mari.

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Vai de zilele mele ce citesc aici :)) Celule satelit aflate pe tesutul muscular? Care sunt alea ma intreb :)) Celule satelit exista in sistemul nervos eventual, muschii nu au "celule satelit". Lichidul intracelular nu se modifica in functie de cate calorii mananci, alta prostie. Daca mananci sare cu kila eventual il poti modifica sau daca te deshidratezi in ultimul hal, altfel nu are nicio relevanta. Exista un metabolism bazal al fiecaruia dintre noi, un numar de calorii necesare doar pentru ca organismul sa functioneze IN REPAUS, fara a face nimic, procesele fiziologice de asemnea consuma energie. Asta e, in medie, in jur de 1400 kcal pe la femei si vreo 2000 kcal pe la barbati, cu variatiile personale, desigur. Daca tu ai o alimentatie hipercalorica, conteaz ce introduci in plus. Daca sunt lipide, da, ele vor fi acumulate sub forma de tesut adipos. Proteinele nu devin grasime oricat ai vrea, organismul isi ia cat are nevoie, restul va fi eliminat sub diferite forme. Glucidele in plus vor fi stocate ca glicogen in muschi si ficat, iar daca si aceste depozite sunt depasite, atunci se acumuleaza ca tesut adipos. 
Sinteza proteinelor e o alta poveste, nici nu prea are legatura cu muschii. Ceea bagi tu proteine "pentru muschi" la sala, sunt in general proteine deja facute, nu se mai sintetizeaza nimic. Sinteza de proteine din organism are loc la nivel celular si doar asa functioneaza organismul, prin intermediul proteinelor. Orice proces din organism care implica stimulari, inhibari ale unei functii sau controlul acestora se face prin proteine. Aceste proteine se sintetizeaza din aminoacizi. Exista aminoacizi esentiali, pe care organismul nu ii poate sintetiza, ce vin strict din alimentatie si aminoacizi ne-esentiali pe care organismul ii poate sintetiza oricum, daca nu sunt introdusi prin alimentatie. Deci sinteza de proteine din organism nu prea are multa treaba cu slabitul si ingrasatul, e un proces care sta la baza functionarii organismului, proteinele sunt "mesagerii" in corp.

RAY · Answer

Pana la urma avem nevoie de suplimente de proteine sau nu?  arderea masei musculare este posibilia daca bag multe calorii? eu stiam ca la infometare se arde masa musculara

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Cum sa se arda masa musculara daca bagi multe calorii? :)) care ar fi logica? Masa musculara nu prea se arde, e foarte greu sa faci asta. Prin infometare, corpul recurge la rezervele de tesut adipos, protejeaza pe cat posibil rezervele de proteine si prin urmare, muschii. In caz de infometare severa (inanitie) da, corpul va consuma si din rezervele de proteine, deci si din muschi. Dar nu vad de ce ar vrea sa faca cineva asa ceva.

RAY · Answer

Tu crezi ca daca consumi 3000 de calorii din carne pe zi nu te vei ingrasa?

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Putin probabil. Fiind baiat, probabil metabolismul tau bazal e pe la 2000 de kcal deja, 1800 daca esti mai slabut. Plus efortul fizic si intelectual pe care il mai depui, ajungi pe la 2500-2600 lejer pe zi. 3000 de kcal doar din carne e foarte ok, nu te ingrasi.

RAY · Answer

Fi serios pai ce se intampla cu caloriile? unde dispar?  daca persoana aia are un metabolism de 1500 de calorii ce intampla cu restul de 1500?

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Vorbim de tine, esti baiat, doar daca ai 1,     60 si 50 de kg poti sa ai un metabolism bazal de 1500 de kcal. Ai lejer inspre 1800,     calorii ce se consuma dupa cum ti-am zis, pentru intretinerea functiilor vitale. Asta e daca nu faci nimic efectiv 24 de ore. Se consuma calorii si pentru activitati fizice si intelectuale, deci ajungi lejer la peste 2000 kcal. Daca faci sport zilnic, ajungi la mai mult de atat.

RAY · Answer

Si restul de 1000 de calorii ce se intampla cu ele? nu se metaboliseaza ca grasimi de fapt

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Nu sunt 1000,     tu iei totul la limita inferioara. Sunt sa zicem vreo 300-400 kcal. Avand in vedere ca sunt foarte multe proteine in carnea de pui, probabil ca in primul rand vor avea efect pe tesutul muscular si lipidele ca tesut adipos daca necesitatile au fost satisfacute. Restul de proteine ce raman, vor fi eliminate.

RAY · Answer

Proteinele sunt eliminate, de ce ar elimina organismul uman proteinele si nu lear converti in grasimi? la carnivore cum e organismul lor  elimina toate proteinele?  daca nu faci sport de ce organismul ar face masa musculara nu are sens, 2 in  usa dieta lor este bogata in proteine dar rata obezitati este mare pai de ce nu sunt slabi?

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Mama ce le confunzi...E simplu, incearca sa intelegi. Proteinele, iti repet, nu inseamna doar masa musculara. Marea parte a proteinelor din corp nu au treaba cu muschii, au functii de mesageri intra- si intercelulari. Corpul are niste necesitati proteice DOAR pentru a sustine aceste functii + pentru sustinerea masei musculare. Muschii nu ii folosesti doar la sala, ii folosesti in absolut orice miscare. Cand mergi, cand mananci, chiar si cand respiri. Prin urmare, corpul isi va lua cat care nevoie din proteine (in general, sa stii ca nu prea saturam niciunul dintre noi corpul in proteine prin alimentatie). Daca ai reusit sa faci asta, sa il saturi, proteinele in plus vor fi eliminate sub diferite forme. Proteinele nu au si functie de protectie ca lipidele, care se depoziteaza ca tesut adipos. Nici ca glucidele, fara de care neuronii sau eritrocitele nu ar putea functiona si ai muri in scurt timp. La carnivore e la fel, sunt tot mamifere. Carnea nu e doar proteina, apropo, o alta chestie. Daca nu faci sport, corpul nu "face" masa musculura, o intretine pentru activitatile de zi cu zi. Se consuma calorii mergand, respirand, absolut orice activitate consuma calorii, implica un efort. Americanii nu au o dieta bogata in proteine, nu stiu de unde ai scos-o pe asta. Americanii baga fast food la greu care da, contine si proteine, pe langa o tona de lipide, de aditivi, de potentiatori de gust etc. Ca sa nu mai zic de glucide, la ei pana si apa are ceva arome dulci, apa simpla cam greu gasesti. Nu mananca toata ziua piept de pui la gratar si sunt obezi.

RAY · Answer

Repet proteinele ingrasa sau nu? de ce ar elimina organismul proteinele? americani consuma multa carne  si sunt obezi, hai sa vedem de china astia au fost slabi pana a venit moda fast food la ei, romanii consumau mai putina carne inainte de 89 ia vezi cati bonavi erau, aici nu-i vorba ca carnea e rea si ca totul  inseamna calorii si se depune ca grasimii   daca  mancam prea mult, daca eu consum 1500 de calorii   pe zi si manc 3000 indiferent de macronutrient ma voi ingrasa singurul adevar e ca proteinele tin de foame, cu ele nu scade masa musculara si ca ele prin converie se ard mai mult decat alti macronutrienti, adica pana in 25% pierzi prin metabolizare  depinde de ce manci  


Vietnam 0.5%   rata obezitatii  70% carbo
Laos 1.2%	   76%
Madagascar 2.1	     78%
Indonezia 2.4%	   73%
China 2.9%	61%
Japonia 3.1%	  58%
Corea de Sud 3.2%	63%
Statele Unite 33.9%	     49%
Arabia Saudita 35.6%	  64%
Egipt 30.3%	   73%

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Omule ma doare capul, tu nu vrei sa intelegi ce iti spun :)) Carnea nu inseamna doar proteine. Americanii nu mananca carne, mananca carne cu o tona de paine, sosuri pline de chimicale, branze topite, chestii semi-preparate. Carnea plina de aditivi si conservanti nu e totuna cu carnea de casa, nu are aceleasi valori nutritive. Proteinele nu se ard! Nu vrei sa intelegi de nicio culoare :)) Se ard glucidele in primul rand, dupa rezervele de tesut adipos si abia la final proteinele, in inanitie, adica cand deja esti cu adevarat subnutrit, ceva ce vezi pe la copiii din Africa si alte tari extrem de sarace. Proteinele nu ingrasa, repet. Sunt student la medicina, stiu ce iti zic, nu mai corela procentul de persoane obeze cu consumul de carne, nu are legatura. Poti sa fii vegetarian si sa fii obez.

RAY · Answer

Normal ca poti fi vegetarian si obez, indiferent de ceea ce manci poti fi obez daca ai o dieta bogata in acel macronutrient dar in tariile unde se manca  multi carbo  populatia este mai sanatoasa dupa cum vezi in acel grafic, vreau sasi spun ca proteinele se convertesc in grasimi nu se elimina nu ar avea sens

RAY · Answer

Cum sa nu se arda? daca bag un snitel acum de 200 de calorii organismul nu va arde enrgia aia, repet  la carnivore cum e? de ce ursi care au o dieta bogata in proteine au multa grasime inainte de hibernare?

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Snitelul ti se pare ca e proteina pura? :)) Il bagi prin pesmet si ou. Eu iti explic ca rezervele de proteine nu se ard, sunt ultimele care ajung sa fie arse. Ursii hiberneaza datorita depozitelor de grasime, nu de proteine.

RAY · Answer

Desi animalele carnivore nu au depozitate grasimii? ursi manca multa carne organismul lor o depoziteaza ca grasime

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Proteinele nu sunt grasime, m-am saturat sa iti zic :)) e biochimie de baza, o faci si in liceu.

RAY · Answer

Am spus eu asa ceva? eu am spus ca proteinele se convertesc in grasime daca manci prea multa, cum naiba proteinele sa fie grasime 

http://www.scientia.ro/biologie/alimentatie-sanatate/6122-6-motive-pentru-care-o-calorie-nu-este-o-calorie.html


http://www.diabetesforecast.org/2011/mar/how-the-body-uses-carbohydrates-proteins-and-fats.html?referrer=https://www.google.ro/

Proteins in food are broken down into pieces (called amino acids) that are then used to build new proteins with specific functions, such as catalyzing chemical reactions, facilitating communication between different cells, or transporting biological molecules from here to there. When there is a shortage of fats or carbohydrates, proteins can also yield energy.

RAY · Answer

Http://www.diabetesforecast.org/2011/mar/how-the-body-uses-carbohydrates-proteins-and-fats.html?referrer=https://www.google.ro/

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Unde zice acolo ca se convertesc in grasime? Zice ceea ce iti zic de 15 minute, elibereaza energie atunci cand nu mai sunt glucide si grasimi pe care le poti folosi (inanitie se cheama). Citeste ceea ce iti scriu, incearca sa intelegi :)) Ai citit ceva pe undeva si nu e corect, asta e tot. Nu o mai sustine una si buna.

RAY · Answer

Da prima oara se folosesc ca energie asta aam spus si eu dar daca manci prea multe se convetesc in grasimi https://ketoschool.com/the-science-behind-fat-metabolism-60f7a3f678d0

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Nu se folosesc prima oara ca energie, se folosesc ultima oara :)) bai omule esti turc?

RAY · Answer

Ce se intampla in cazul unei mese bogate in carbohidrati? Raspuns:acestia sunt oxidati sau transformati in glicogen.Nu sunt transformati in tesut adipos!
Glycogen synthesis versus lipogenesis after a 500 gram carbohydrate meal in man
"Assuming the CHO load to be completely absorbed after 5 hr, and allowing for glucose oxidation calculated from the gas exchange data, the glycogen content of the subject's body tissue had then increased by 408 +/- 19 g. During the 10 hr after the meal, 133 g CHO, 17 g fat and 29 g protein were oxidized, providing respectively 66%, 19%(aproape 20% din energie din oxidarea lipidelor) and 15% of caloric expenditure, and leaving a gain in glycogen stores estimated at 346 +/- 12 g. The data imply that: (1) The capacity for glycogen storage in man in larger than generally believed, and (2) Fat synthesis from CHO will not exceed fat oxidation after one high-carbohydrate meal, even if it is uncommonly large. When a single high-carbohydrate meal is consumed, dietary CHO merely has the effect of reducing the rate of fat oxidation. These findings challenge the common perception that conversion of CHO to fat is an important pathway for the retention of dietary energy and for the accumulation of body fat."
Ce se intampla in cazul unor diete hipercalorice(50% peste mentenanta) in care excesul energetic provine fie din lipide, fie din glucide?
Fat and carbohydrate overfeeding in humans: different effects on energy storage?
"Carbohydrate overfeeding produced progressive increases in carbohydrate oxidation and total energy expenditure resulting in 75-85% of excess energy being stored. Alternatively, fat overfeeding had minimal effects on fat oxidation and total energy expenditure, leading to storage of 90-95% of excess energy. Excess dietary fat leads to greater fat accumulation than does excess dietary carbohydrate, and the difference was greatest early in the overfeeding period."
Metabolsmul carbohidratilor
Nutrient effects:postabsorptive interactions
Dupa o masa bogata in carbohidrati acestia urmeaza 4 posibile cai metabolice:
-sa fie oxidati si sa furnizeze energie
-sa fie stocati sub forma de glicogen
-sa fie transformati in trigliceride
-sa constituie substrat pentru gluconeogeneza
Marea majoritate sunt absorbiti in primele ore.
"Meals usually provide 50-150 g CHO, of which approximately 90% is absorbed within 4 h(Radziuk et al. 1978)"
Peste jumatate sunt stocati sub forma de glicogen.
"In nonobese nondiabetic subjects, after ingestion of a 100 g glucose load, about 40 g glucose are oxidized within  3  h of ingestion, whereas about 50  g are stored as glycogen(Felber  et  af.  1983),  the remaining  10  g being not yet absorbed"
Insulina nu inhiba complet lipoliza.
"During the 3 h period after a 100 g glucose load, glucose, lipid and protein oxidation respectively accounted for 60,    25 and 15% of the energy expenditure (Rousselle  et  al.  1982)"; adica timp de 3 h de la consumarea a 100 g glucoza, corpul arde 25% din energia sa din grasimi
Insulina stimuleaza oxidarea glucozei.
"Insulin secretion plays a major role after meal ingestion: insulin stimulates glucose oxidation by enhancing glucose transport in insulin sensitive cells, by stimulating glycolysis"
Insulina inhiba lipoliza(dar nu total).
"Insulin also suppresses the activity of the hormonesensitive lipase and, therefore, inhibits lipolysis and lipid oxidation.The inhibition of lipid oxidation parallels the stimulation of glucose oxidation"
"Insulin does not completely suppress glycerol output from adipose tissue, indicating that lipolysis is not entirely inhibited after a meal. By contrast, NEFA(acizi grasi liberi) release is strongly inhibited (Coppack  er  al.  1990), showing that after a meal the NEFA produced by low rates of lipolysis in adipose tissue are re-esterified within the adipose tissue.
Corpul unui adult este capabil sa stocheze pana la 500 g de glicogen in conditii normale.
"The body’s glycogen reserves are small and are usually maintained at between  250  and 500  g in a  70  kg adult man. A normal maintenance diet provides about  250-300  g CHO/d, which represents  50-100%  of the total glycogen stores."
Carbohidratii consumati intr-o dieta tipica(250-300 g/zi) sunt oxidati in intregime pe parcursul unei zile.
"From day to day, changes in the body’s glycogen stores in the postabsorptive state are very small. This indicates that within  24  h there is total oxidation  of  absorbed dietary CHO."
Carbohidratii nu contribuie semnificativ la formarea tesutului adipos.
"It  is to be emphasized that other metabolic pathways for disposal of dietary CHO, such as conversion into TAG(trigliceride) or into nonessential amino acids, are not quantitatively important."
Although the glycogen stores are normally maintained within a relatively narrow range, the capacity for storing large amounts of dietary CHO by conversion to glycogen is relatively large (Acheson  et al. 1982,    1984,   1985,   1988)
Ce se intampla  in cazul administrarii a 500g maltodextrina(indice glicemic 130)? Aproape jumatate din cantitate este oxidata, peste jumatate este stocata ca glicogen si nu depune nimic sub forma de grasime, ba chiar se mai oxideaza putin din grasime.
"A large load of CHO  (500  g dextrinmaltose given as three meals over  5  h) to healthy subjects induces a marked stimulation of CHO oxidation over the  14  h after the first meal  (240  g oxidized, 260  g stored; Acheson  et al. 1985 Contribution of 500 g naturally labeled 13C dextrin maltose to total carbohydrate utilization and the effect of the antecedent diet, in man).  Net lipogenesis occurred at a low rate from  5  to  10  h after the first meal, but this lipid accumulation was offset by a greater rate  of  lipid oxidation over the next  4  h. The fat balance calculated over  14  h was negative, indicating that the large load of CHO did not induce a gain in fat."
Pe timpul noptii principala sursa de energie sunt grasimile.
In those subjects who were studied throughout the night, carbohydrate utilization declined, fat became the principal energy source and dextrin maltose oxidation could  account for almost all of the carbohydrate which was being oxidized. At the end of the 24 h period the cumulative total carbohydrate oxidation was 217 ± 10 g (2 subjects in the high fat group), 300± 13 g (mixed diet group) and 335 ± 7 g (2 subjects in the high carbohydrate group) of which dextrin maltose oxidation had contributed 82%, 70% and 73% respectively.
Dar cand se adminitreaza 500 g maltodextrina persoanelor obeze versus non obeze?
Carbohydrate metabolism and de novo lipogenesis in human obesity
"During the 14 h, the lean subjects oxidized 28 ± 4 g protein and 15 ± 4 g of fat. Of the 15 g of fat oxidized, 4 ± 7 g were restored by synthesis from carbohydrate, resulting in an overall balance of -11±4g.In the obese, 29 ± 3 g of protein were oxidized during the 14 h. The total amount of fat oxidized was similar to that of the lean controls(19 ± 5 g/l4 h) and was counter-balanced by a gain of 5 ± 3 g of fat during the periods in which de novo synthesis of fat exceeded concomitant fat oxidation. This resulted in an overall fat balance of -14 ± 8 g/ 14 h."
"Evidence that dietary fat, rather than fat synthesis from carbohydrate, provides the precursors for adipose tissue triglycerides should help to alleviate the commonly held fear among weight-conscious individuals that carbohydrate turns into fat. This erroneous belief may lead these individuals to avoid foods known to contain primarily carbohydrates infavor of foods known for their low-carbohydrate content (ie, high-protein items). Such a pattern of food selection would be unfortunate, indeed, because it promotes the consumption of foods with a high-fat content, which is much more likely to sustain positive fat balance than dietary carbohydrate."

Dar ce se intampla cand o persoana consuma 740 g de carbohidrati(cu 60 g de lipide si 100 g de proteine)? Din nou corpul stocheaza aproape jumatate din ei  si arde restul.
"In another study, after  3  day on  a hypoenergetic low CHO diet to deplete glycogen stores, a very large amount  (740  g)  of dietary CHO (with  60  g fat and  100  g protein), consumed during the 4th day by healthy young human subjects, induced an increase of  340  g in the glycogen store, without initiating  de  novo  lipid synthesis at rates exceeding concomitant fat oxidation (Acheson et al.  1988).  In this study, 400  g  CHO/d were oxidized. These findings show that high amounts of dietary CHO can be accommodated by inducing a stimulation of CHO oxidation and an increase in glycogen stores. The important point is that there was no gain of fat by  de  novo  lipogenesis, as a small amount of net lipid oxidation was observed.
Acheson  et  al.  (1988) showed in young men that glycogen stores must increase by about  500  g before net conversion of CHO into fat occurs. When the glycogen stores become saturated, the only way of disposing of additional excess CHO intake is by fat synthesis. This phenomenon can be demonstrated under artificial conditions of overfeeding. In everyday life, a high intake of CHO elicits an increase  of  satiety, and subsequently food intake  is  decreased(Blundell  et  al.  1993).  These results support the concept that dietary CHO does not increase an individual’s fat content by  de  novo  lipogenesis under normal conditions."
Hellerstein  et  al.  (1991)  showed in humans that the fraction  of  very-low-density-lipoprotein-palmitate derived from  de novo lipogenesis was only  0.9%  in the fasted state and  2%  in the fed state after a high-CHO breakfast. These results support the concept that  de  novo  lipogenesis is not an important pathway in humans."
Ce se intampla in cazul unor diete high carb hipercalorice pe o perioada mai lunga de timp?
Glycogen storage capacity and de novo lipogenesis during massive carbohydrate overfeeding in man
In acest experiment 3 tineri au consumat o dieta hipocalorica(1600 cal) high fat(75%, p=15%, c=10%) timp de 3 zile, concomitent cu exercitii fizice pentru golirea rezervelor de glicogen.Au urmat apoi o dieta high carb(c=86%, p=11, L=3%) si hipercalorica(3500 calorii crescute treptat pana la 5000 de cal) timp de 7 zile, apoi 2 zile de high protein si hipocalorica(600cal) si inca 2 zile de high fat.
In peroada high carb subiectii s-au ingrasat 4.6 kg, in cele 2 zile de dieta hipocalorica au slabit 4.4 si la final au revenit la greutatea initiala.
"After the 7 d of overfeeding the high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet (day 10), body weight had increased by 4.6 ± 1.3 kg (ie, 5.6, 4.9, and 3.2 kg). During the 2 d on the restricted high-protein, low-energy diet (600 kcal/d) 4.4 ± 0.9 kg were lost. Two days later, body weights were the same as at the start of the overfeeding phase of the experiment"
Pe perioada dietei high carb metabolismul subiectilor a crescut cu 35%(de la 2400 cal la peste 3200 cal), corpul reusind partial sa disipeze excesul de calorii.De unde provine aceasta crestere?
"Carbohydrate stored as glycogen requires the expenditure of 2 mol ATP per glucose moiety converted into glycogen plus 0.5 mol for the cost of active transport in the gut and other phenomena, such as digestive enzyme synthesis and gut motility. Because glucose oxidation yields 36 mol ATP, the cost of glycogen synthesis consumes 2.5/36 or 7% ofthe glucose stored as glycogen. The transformation of glycogen into fatty acids, the subsequent esterification before export from the liver, and then triglyceride storage in adipose tissue consume additional ATP, estimated at 18%. Thus ~25% of the energy of the glucose channelled into de novo lipogemesis can be expected to be needed for this process.Of the energy consumed in excess of maintenance energy, 75% was retained and 25% dissipated."
Cand incepe corpul sa transforme in lipide  carbohidratii? Doar cand exista exces cronic  de glucide si rezervele de glicogen sunt saturate.
"Our data suggest that glycogen stores must increase by 500 g before appreciable de novo lipogenesis begins. Provided that massive amounts of carbohydrate continue to be ingested, the glycogen stores become saturated so that the only way of disposing of additional excess carbohydrate is by fat synthesis in addition to maximal use of glucose for energy generation."
"From these data it would seem that the glycogen stores can maximally accommodate 800-900 g of carbohydrate and perhaps as much as 1-1.1 kg in trained athletes. These results are among the highest glycogen storage values reported in the literature."
Ce reprezinta cele 4.6 kg acumulate?
-2.1-3.5 kg glicogen+apa
-650 g tesut muscular
-1.1 kg tesut adipos din care 600g provenit din excesul de glucide(de novo lipogenesis) si 500g din  lipidele din dieta.
Assuming that glycogen is stored with two to four times its weight of water, ~2.1-3.5 kg of the change in body weight can be accounted for. Cumulative gains of body fat by de novo lipogenesis and from that which was provided in the diet amounted to 1.1 kg fat. Thus with the 665 g increase in lean body mass indicated by a gain of 133 g protein, we can account for the 4.6 kg increase in body weight.
"During the 6 d during which lipid synthesis exceeded fat oxidation, net de novo lipogenesis amounted to a total of 580 g. Because in addition to de novo lipogenesis some fat was provided in the diet (85 g/d), the overall fat gain was  ~1.1 kg"
"Finally, our findings indicate that the body’s glycogen stores are far from completely filled under normal ad libitum conditions."
Concluzia este ca toata ingrijorare starnita de autori fara expertiza in domeniu si care s-au avantat in concluzii riscante si nesustinute de litearatura stiintifica sunt complet nejustificate.Desi posibil ca excesul de glucide sa fie convertit in lipide, intr-o dieta normala acest lucru este improbabil.Sunt necesare 3 conditii:
-dieta hipercalorica
-consum exagerat de glucide
-supraconsum cronic(2-3 zile nu sunt suficiente)
De remarcat usurinta cu care s-au depus lipidele din dieta desi procentual au reprezentat doar 3% din totalul caloriilor. Avand in vedere ca lipidele intr-o dieta normala ajung pe la 30-40%, rezulta ca intr-o dieta mixta hipercalorica adevarata problema o reprezinta lipidele.Ele contribuie intr-o maniera covarsitoare la formarea tesutului adipos.In prezenta atat a glucidelor cat si a lipidelor corpul foloseste prioritar glucidele si lipidele se depun.Stiintific vorbind dietele low fat au o justificare in metabolismul uman.Insa ele n-au fost urmate decat rar la nivelul populatiei.Din acest motiv(si din altele) tind sa nu mai fie recomandate in ultima vreme si nu din cauza ca fiziologic ele n-ar functiona.Trebuie remarcat totusi ca intr-o dieta mixta eucalorica(in balanta calorica) atat lipidele cat si carbohidratii sunt oxidati si nu se depun sub forma de tesut adipos.

RAY · Answer

Nu sunt obligat sa cred in ce crezi tu, ti-am explicat frumos ca proteinele se convetesc in grasimi daca manci multe, daca 10 kg de carne pe zi sa numi spui ca nu o sa ingrasi deloc

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Nu exista cuvantul carbohidrati in medicina, pentru inceput. Exista glucide. Care ti-am spus acum 20 de minute ca se transforma in glicogen. I give up man, esti turc :)) citeste primul raspuns si lamureste-te, ma doare capul cu tine sa iti explic acelasi lucru de 10 mii de ori. Proteinele nu se transforma in grasime! Retine asta!

RAY · Answer

Daca manci 2 kg de carne pe zi ce se intampla? slabesti nu?

RAY · Answer

Although excess calories from fat, protein and even carbohydrates get stored as fat, the body prefers to use protein and carbs elsewhere. Protein is the last resource tapped when your body needs energy for everyday activities or exercise. Likewise, protein resists conversion to fat because your body uses this nutrient for other functions, such as repairing muscle tissue following exercise, building muscle and delivering oxygen to working muscles. Taking in more calories than you need, however, can result in excess body fat, regardless of your primary source of calories.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/506032-do-corn-carrots-turn-to-sugar-after-eaten/

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Ba nu e cred eu, esti deja imbecil. Sunt student la medicina, am facut 1 an jumate de biochimie si vii cu niste opinii babesti si articole pseudo-stiintifice care sustin acelasi lucru pe care ti-l zic si eu.

RAY · Answer

Alo eu nu team jignit, nimeni nu e obligat sa creada ce crezi tu, manca tu 2 kg de carne de porc timp de o luna mai discutam, ti-am explicat ca cand manci ceva o partea se foloseste ca energie, celule etc si restul se pastreaza, nu esti obligat sa crezi daca esti asa nu ai ce cauta acolo trebuie sa iubesti stiinta nu sa ai minte inchisa,nici un studiu nu a demonstrat ca daca subiecti au mancat o dieta bogata in proteine, carbo, grasimi nu sau ingrasat la fel, atunci am manca carne non stop si am fi slabi, si eu apreciez proteinele   si eu manc zilnic dar putine ca ingrasa, totul ingrasa

RAY · Answer

Http://www.mediafire.com/file/8fz16d7rnaz5m9j/Diet+and+weight-reduction+in+the+obese.pdf

studiul a cuprins 3 grupe de pacienti obezi, care au consumat diete high fat si high carb insa pe perioade mai lungi decat in studiul lui Kekwick si Pawan. Daca studiul acestora a durat 7-10 zile, studiul de fata a durat pana la 4 luni.
Prima grupa a consumat alternativ la cate 18 zile o dieta high fat 62% grasimi, urmata de o dieta high carb 78% glucide. Ambele diete aveau 800 Cal.
A doua grupa a consumat la intervale de 24 de zile o dieta high fat 70% grasime, urmata de o dieta high carb 75% glucide. Ambele diete au avut 1000 de Cal.
A treia grupa a consumat timp de 24 de zile alternativ o dieta high fat 86% grasimi, urmata de o dieta high carb 91% glucide. Ambele diete au avut 1000 de Cal.

Toate dietele au mentinut proteinele la acelasi nivel intre cele 2 diete si dietele au fost alternate pana la 4 luni. Rezultatul? Toti pacientii au pierdut in greutate in mod similar indiferent de dieta. Dpdv al unui adept low carb acest lucru pare de neconceput: cum adica sa consumi 90% din calorii sub forma de carbohidrati si sa slabesti la fel ca atunci cand consumi o dieta cu 86% grasimi? Da, pentru ca slabirea nu are de-a face cu carbohidratii sau cu insulina sau cu toate erorile stiintifice debitate de Taubes. Slabirea are de-a face cu deficitul caloric. Ai deficit caloric, slabesti, n-ai deficit caloric, nu slabesti. Si asta demonstreaza toate studiile metabolice din ultimii 60 de ani, adica pe o dieta high fat nu se slabeste mai mult decat pe o dieta high carb, in conditiile unor diete egale caloric.

ca student uitate la studiu

RAY · Answer

Http://www.mediafire.com/file/10ddabd3pqmnzz3/Fatty+foods+and+obesity.pdf
2 pacienti obezi au consumat o dieta high fat de 1500 Cal in care proportia grasimi - proteine a fost de 5:1 si carbohidratii sub 25 de grame. Au pierdut din greutate abrupt dupa care la 5-7 zile greutatea s-a stabilizat. In urmatoarele 9 zile au consumat tot o dieta high fat dar de 2000 de Cal. Unul din pacienti a ramas stabil, iar celalat a acumulat 1 kg.
Un al treilea pacient a consumat o dieta high fat de 2000 Cal dupa o dieta mixta si timp de 5 zile a pierdut in greutate dupa care s-a stabilizat.
Alti 4 pacienti au consumat o dieta high fat de 2000 de Cal timp de 13 zile. In primele 7 zile au pirdut in greutate dupa care s-au stablizat.

Apoi toti pacientii au consumat o dieta high carb de 1200 Cal in ultimele 5-7 zile ale experimentului. In aceasta perioada greutatea lor a ramas stabila in ciuda scaderii caloriilor. Insa de data asta cercetatorii au fost precauti si au masurat rata metabolica a pacientilor. Au descoperit ca metabolismul lor cheltuia mai multa energie decat era furnizata prin dieta, deci in aceasta perioada deficitul era acoperit din tesutul gras, in ciuda mentinerii greutatii. De ce greutatea nu a scazut? Pentru ca pe dietele high carb in primele zile are loc o retentie de apa care mascheaza pierderea in fapt a greutatii corporale datorata oxidarii grasimilor, asa cum pe o dieta high fat in primele zile se pierde de fapt glicogenul si apa aferenta. In cuvintele autorilor:

RAY · Answer

Lasa-ma cu sunt student cu toti stim cum iesiti din facultate si ce doctori avem in tara, ca esti student nu inseamna ca sti totul, intreaba un doctor daca carnea nu ingrasa sau un profesor sa vedem ce o sasi spuna

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Ce doctori avem in tara? Da, avem aia de pe la facultatile slabe care nu pleaca afara pentru ca nu sunt capabili, cei buni, care sunt si la fara taxa, pleaca primii din tara. E bine ca tu care esti paralel cu medicina vii si iti dai cu parerea, iar cand cineva care cat de cat este in domeniu si incearca sa iti explice, spui ca nu, ca tu stii mai bine. Cumpara o carte de biochimie, mergi la metabolismul proteic si ai acolo toate informatiile.

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Ba nea Gica, ce studii stiintifice vrei? Deschide o carte si afli tot ce vrei. Carnea de porc nu contine doar proteine, te-ai uitat vreodata cate proteine are? E plina si de lipide. Nici macar nu stii din ce e formata o celula, dar tu vii si iti dai cu parerea. Du-te acas'!

RAY · Answer

Sunteti zero vin straini si va lecti de viata, multi habar nu aveti de medicina cand terminati facultatea

RAY · Answer

Omule tiam trimis si studii tu tot degeaba, eu ma asteptam sa ai o minte deschisa ca na esti viitor doctor cu mintea asta nu ai cauta afara din Romania

anonim_4396 · Answer

Ai o boala, ceva?

RAY · Answer

Nu,de ce?

RAY · Answer

Omule citeste studiul  dieta bogata in proteine vs dieta bogata in carbo ambi subiecti au slabit la fel, da contine si grasimi desigur  dar si proteine care daca nu sunt metabolizate vor fi folosite ca tesut adios

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Strainii? :)) Vrei sa vorbim despre arabii care termina medicina aici? Sunt colegi cu mine, isi cumpara fiecare examen aproape, nu stiu absolut nimic, termina facultatea pe bani. Noi pana una alta invatam pe bune. Nu mi-ai trimis niciun studiu, ce pana mea imi pasa mie ca ala mananca carne de taur sau nu, ceea ce iti zic de 2 ore deja e ca proteinele nu sunt grasimi. Aia e tot! La ce mai pui intrebari daca crezi ca le stii pe toate, in conditiile in care tu nici nu esti capabil sa scrii 2 cuvinte corect in limba romana? Mergi inapoi la scoala primara, dupa poti sa vii si sa-mi spui ca sunt zero.

RAY · Answer

Si eu isi spun ca proteinele nu sunt grasimi dar vad ca nu intelegi,proteinele sunt alt macronutrient, nu minti ca am spus ca proteinele sunt grasimi, eu am spus ca si proteinele se pot converti in grasimi daca manci mai mult decat consumi, de exemplu daca manci 1,     2kg de carne de porc pe zi    te vei ingrasa si nu doar din cauza lipidelor

AndreiWeisz · Answer

Te rog sa mananci tu 1 kg de carne de porc pe zi, doar atat si ma anunti ce rezultate ai.

RAY · Answer

Daca tot afirmi ceva de ce nu prezinti un studiu   sau vreo dovada stiintifica cum ca proteinele se elimina, eu ti-am dat doua studii

RAY · Answer

Imi pierd timpul cu tine pa

RAY · Answer

Proteins
Proteins consist of units called amino acids, strung together in complex formations. Because proteins are complex molecules, the body takes longer to break them down. As a result, they are a much slower and longer-lasting source of energy than carbohydrates.

There are 20 amino acids. The body synthesizes some of them from components within the body, but it cannot synthesize 9 of the amino acids—called essential amino acids. They must be consumed in the diet. Everyone needs 8 of these amino acids: isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine. Infants also need a 9th one, histidine.

The percentage of protein the body can use to synthesize essential amino acids varies from protein to protein. The body can use 100% of the protein in egg and a high percentage of the proteins in milk and meats. The body can use a little less than half of the protein in most vegetables and cereals.

The body needs protein to maintain and replace tissues and to function and grow. Protein is not usually used for energy. However, if the body is not getting enough calories from other nutrients or from the fat stored in the body, protein is used for energy. If more protein is consumed than is needed, the body breaks the protein down and stores its components as fat.

The body contains large amounts of protein. Protein, the main building block in the body, is the primary component of most cells. For example, muscle, connective tissues, and skin are all built of protein.

Adults need to eat about 60 grams of protein per day (0.8 grams per kilogram of weight or 10 to 15% of total calories). Adults who are trying to build muscle need slightly more. Children also need more because they are growing. People who are limiting calories to lose weight typically need a higher amount of protein to prevent loss of muscle while they are losing weight.

http://www.msdmanuals.com/home/disorders-of-nutrition/overview-of-nutrition/carbohydrates,-proteins,-and-fats

RAY · Answer

Dupa ce am slabit acum sa maresc nr caloriilor nici vorba